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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s so magisterial about it?:  Magistrates and the Swiss and German reformations (Reformations 11)</title>
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	<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2005/11/03/whats-so-magisterial-about-it-magistrates-and-the-swiss-and-german-reformations-reformations-11/</link>
	<description>Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean houses my podcast, websites, blog, and publications, providing an entryway into social and religious life among Greeks, Romans, Jews, Christians, and others in the Roman empire.</description>
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		<title>By: Phil Harland</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2005/11/03/whats-so-magisterial-about-it-magistrates-and-the-swiss-and-german-reformations-reformations-11/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Harland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>4 Comments

Seminary Prof said...

    Philip,
    Magisterial in reference to the &quot;Magisterial Reformers,&quot; such as Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin does not have to do with their relationship to the magistrates of the era. It comes from the Latin, magisterius, and connotes the authoritative Reformers, as in the papal magisterium. It is NOT connected to magistrates. Sorry.

    10:56 AM
Phil Harland
Phil Harland said...

    Actually, the term &quot;magisterial reformation(s)&quot; is regularly used by _historians today_ in reference to the role of magistrates in these movements (under Luther, Zwingli, and others). This does not exclude the simultaneous reference to magisterium, a Latin term that was used (back in the middle ages) in reference to the teaching power or &quot;authority&quot; held by church magistrates. This, too, applies to the reformers in terms of their claims of teaching authority (as you seem to be indicating). (We are talking about insider and outsider language here used simultaneously in reference to the reformations). See, for instance, Carter Lindberg, _The European Reformations_, p. 12, where he directly addresses this very issue. Phil

    12:40 PM
Phil Harland
Phil Harland said...

    In connection with the &quot;outsider&quot; / etic comment above, I forgot to mention that the term &quot;magisterial reformation&quot; was coined, in contradistinction to the &quot;radical reformation&quot;, in 1962 by George H. Williams, The Radical Reformation (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1962) (now in subsequent editions). Other historians have adopted the terminology, though with some hesitancy over the value judgements (positive or negative) that may be implied by such terms. Hope this helps. Phil

    1:03 PM
Phil Harland
Phil Harland said...

    The 1992 (3rd) edition of Williams&#039; book (who coined the term magisterial reformation in 1962) has the following on p. 1281 (as cited by Lindberg, p. 12):

    &quot;Thus the classical Magisterial Reformation was &#039;magisterial&#039; not only in the primary sense that it allowed for a large role on the part of the state in implementing Reformation and even in assessing doctrinal, liturgical, and ecclesiological issues but also in the subsidiary sense that it accorded extraordinary authority to an individual teacher&quot;.

    1:11 PM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4 Comments</p>
<p>Seminary Prof said&#8230;</p>
<p>    Philip,<br />
    Magisterial in reference to the &#8220;Magisterial Reformers,&#8221; such as Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin does not have to do with their relationship to the magistrates of the era. It comes from the Latin, magisterius, and connotes the authoritative Reformers, as in the papal magisterium. It is NOT connected to magistrates. Sorry.</p>
<p>    10:56 AM<br />
Phil Harland<br />
Phil Harland said&#8230;</p>
<p>    Actually, the term &#8220;magisterial reformation(s)&#8221; is regularly used by _historians today_ in reference to the role of magistrates in these movements (under Luther, Zwingli, and others). This does not exclude the simultaneous reference to magisterium, a Latin term that was used (back in the middle ages) in reference to the teaching power or &#8220;authority&#8221; held by church magistrates. This, too, applies to the reformers in terms of their claims of teaching authority (as you seem to be indicating). (We are talking about insider and outsider language here used simultaneously in reference to the reformations). See, for instance, Carter Lindberg, _The European Reformations_, p. 12, where he directly addresses this very issue. Phil</p>
<p>    12:40 PM<br />
Phil Harland<br />
Phil Harland said&#8230;</p>
<p>    In connection with the &#8220;outsider&#8221; / etic comment above, I forgot to mention that the term &#8220;magisterial reformation&#8221; was coined, in contradistinction to the &#8220;radical reformation&#8221;, in 1962 by George H. Williams, The Radical Reformation (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1962) (now in subsequent editions). Other historians have adopted the terminology, though with some hesitancy over the value judgements (positive or negative) that may be implied by such terms. Hope this helps. Phil</p>
<p>    1:03 PM<br />
Phil Harland<br />
Phil Harland said&#8230;</p>
<p>    The 1992 (3rd) edition of Williams&#8217; book (who coined the term magisterial reformation in 1962) has the following on p. 1281 (as cited by Lindberg, p. 12):</p>
<p>    &#8220;Thus the classical Magisterial Reformation was &#8216;magisterial&#8217; not only in the primary sense that it allowed for a large role on the part of the state in implementing Reformation and even in assessing doctrinal, liturgical, and ecclesiological issues but also in the subsidiary sense that it accorded extraordinary authority to an individual teacher&#8221;.</p>
<p>    1:11 PM</p>
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