Comments on: Paul, the Galatians, and circumcision (NT 1.6) http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/03/11/paul-the-galatians-and-circumcision-nt-6/ Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean houses my podcast, websites, blog, and publications, providing an entryway into social and religious life among Greeks, Romans, Jews, Christians, and others in the Roman empire. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:14:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean » Paul and the situation at Galatia — again (NT 2.9) http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/03/11/paul-the-galatians-and-circumcision-nt-6/comment-page-1/#comment-10526 Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean » Paul and the situation at Galatia — again (NT 2.9) Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:05:00 +0000 http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=155#comment-10526 [...] We lack any sign of reconciliation between Paul and the followers of Jesus in Galatia, however (as discussed, in part, by Mark Goodacre). In a previous post on Paul, the Galatians, and circumcision (NT 1.6) I have discussed these rocky relations with the Galatians as well as the other teachers who Paul views as opponents to his own “good message”. If the absence of any mention of donations for the poor at Jerusalem in Paul’s latest letter — that to the Romans in the mid-late 50s CE — is any indication then it seems that the Galatians continued to follow leaders of the Jesus movement other than Paul. Not only has Paul seemingly lost the support of the Galatians by this time (they are not mentioned as contributors to the collection), but he is even worried that the leadership at Jerusalem itself may not accept the financial gift from the Achaians (Corinth and Cenchreae are in this region) and the Macedonians (Thessalonica and Philippi) which he had hoped would lessen tensions between Paul with his Gentile mission and the groups of Jewish followers of Jesus at Jerusalem. For in Romans, Paul states: “At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem with aid for the saints. For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among the saints at Jerusalem; they were pleased to do it, and indeed they are in debt to them, for if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings. When therefore I have completed this, and have delivered to them what has been raised, I shall go on by way of you to Spain; and I know that when I come to you I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of Christ. I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company” (Romans 15:25-32 [RSV]).   [...] [...] We lack any sign of reconciliation between Paul and the followers of Jesus in Galatia, however (as discussed, in part, by Mark Goodacre). In a previous post on Paul, the Galatians, and circumcision (NT 1.6) I have discussed these rocky relations with the Galatians as well as the other teachers who Paul views as opponents to his own “good message”. If the absence of any mention of donations for the poor at Jerusalem in Paul’s latest letter — that to the Romans in the mid-late 50s CE — is any indication then it seems that the Galatians continued to follow leaders of the Jesus movement other than Paul. Not only has Paul seemingly lost the support of the Galatians by this time (they are not mentioned as contributors to the collection), but he is even worried that the leadership at Jerusalem itself may not accept the financial gift from the Achaians (Corinth and Cenchreae are in this region) and the Macedonians (Thessalonica and Philippi) which he had hoped would lessen tensions between Paul with his Gentile mission and the groups of Jewish followers of Jesus at Jerusalem. For in Romans, Paul states: “At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem with aid for the saints. For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among the saints at Jerusalem; they were pleased to do it, and indeed they are in debt to them, for if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings. When therefore I have completed this, and have delivered to them what has been raised, I shall go on by way of you to Spain; and I know that when I come to you I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of Christ. I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company” (Romans 15:25-32 [RSV]).   [...]

]]> By: Dav id Elkin http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/03/11/paul-the-galatians-and-circumcision-nt-6/comment-page-1/#comment-422 Dav id Elkin Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:52:47 +0000 http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=155#comment-422 Read the book "James, the brother of Jesus". Paul was at direct odds with the leaders of early Christanity. The fact that he never "physically met Jesus", and that he only interacted with the Christ Jesus on a supernatural level, leads me to believe that he created a version of Christianity that was completely hellenized and he was at odds with the Jerusulam leadership Read the book “James, the brother of Jesus”. Paul was at direct odds with the leaders of early Christanity. The fact that he never “physically met Jesus”, and that he only interacted with the Christ Jesus on a supernatural level, leads me to believe that he created a version of Christianity that was completely hellenized and he was at odds with the Jerusulam leadership

]]> By: Phil Harland http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/03/11/paul-the-galatians-and-circumcision-nt-6/comment-page-1/#comment-374 Phil Harland Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:51:14 +0000 http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=155#comment-374 Yes, if Fredriksen is right on that point. I do not think that Paul's view (on this or on a number of other things) is normative for most of the earliest Jesus movements. My reference to the article does not suggest agreement, though I suppose I should have taken more time (if I had it) to spell that out in full and to engage in a critique of aspects of that article. Still, I think it is "worth a read" despite my disagreements with it. Phil Yes, if Fredriksen is right on that point. I do not think that Paul’s view (on this or on a number of other things) is normative for most of the earliest Jesus movements. My reference to the article does not suggest agreement, though I suppose I should have taken more time (if I had it) to spell that out in full and to engage in a critique of aspects of that article. Still, I think it is “worth a read” despite my disagreements with it. Phil

]]> By: Loren Rosson http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/03/11/paul-the-galatians-and-circumcision-nt-6/comment-page-1/#comment-373 Loren Rosson Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:37:45 +0000 http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=155#comment-373 <i>It seems that Paul... is somewhat of an oddball (so to speak) within second temple Judaism and the early Jesus movement, not in his notion of including Gentiles but rather in his not requiring that such Gentiles be circumcized in order to express their belonging within this Jewish Jesus movement.</i> But if Fredriksen is right (and I think she is), then Paul isn't the oddball; he's just sticking to original practice in the Christian movement. It seems that Paul… is somewhat of an oddball (so to speak) within second temple Judaism and the early Jesus movement, not in his notion of including Gentiles but rather in his not requiring that such Gentiles be circumcized in order to express their belonging within this Jewish Jesus movement.

But if Fredriksen is right (and I think she is), then Paul isn’t the oddball; he’s just sticking to original practice in the Christian movement.

]]>