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	<title>Comments on: ‘Come! Plunge the knife into the baby’: Tertullian&#8217;s not-so-subtle retort</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/</link>
	<description>Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean houses my podcast, websites, blog, and publications, providing an entryway into social and religious life among Greeks, Romans, Jews, Christians, and others in the Roman empire.</description>
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		<title>By: Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean &#187; The Gospel of Judas and ethnographic stereotypes: The priests &#8220;sacrifice their own children&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-9744</link>
		<dc:creator>Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean &#187; The Gospel of Judas and ethnographic stereotypes: The priests &#8220;sacrifice their own children&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-9744</guid>
		<description>[...] In ‘Come! Plunge the knife into the baby’ I discussed the ways in which ethnographic stereotypes concerning the dangers of foreign ways and peoples also came to be applied by outsiders to Christians as minority cultural groups in the ancient Mediterranean. Some Greek or Roman authors who described the cultural practices of others, including those of both Judeans (Jews) and Jesus-followers, did so in a way that emphasized the &#8220;inhuman&#8221; or &#8220;sub-human&#8221; activity of apparent foreigners who were either little known and/or disliked. And there was a common stockpile of accusations that were used in stereotyping &#8220;the other&#8221; including human sacrifice, cannibalism, and &#8220;improper&#8221; sexual practices. One reader of that post (Nathan) astutely asked: &#8220;In regards to the allegations of infanticide and cannibalism [in the case of Christians] might the gospel of Judas also allude to such allegations, when it characterizes certain of the proto-Orthodox as &#8217;slayers of children&#8217; (sec. 40; cf. 38)&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In ‘Come! Plunge the knife into the baby’ I discussed the ways in which ethnographic stereotypes concerning the dangers of foreign ways and peoples also came to be applied by outsiders to Christians as minority cultural groups in the ancient Mediterranean. Some Greek or Roman authors who described the cultural practices of others, including those of both Judeans (Jews) and Jesus-followers, did so in a way that emphasized the &#8220;inhuman&#8221; or &#8220;sub-human&#8221; activity of apparent foreigners who were either little known and/or disliked. And there was a common stockpile of accusations that were used in stereotyping &#8220;the other&#8221; including human sacrifice, cannibalism, and &#8220;improper&#8221; sexual practices. One reader of that post (Nathan) astutely asked: &#8220;In regards to the allegations of infanticide and cannibalism [in the case of Christians] might the gospel of Judas also allude to such allegations, when it characterizes certain of the proto-Orthodox as &#8217;slayers of children&#8217; (sec. 40; cf. 38)&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-8105</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-8105</guid>
		<description>Hello, Dr. Harland. I&#039;ve got just a quick question for you (and anyone else who may care to comment, for that matter): In regards to the allegations of infanticide and cannabalism reproached by Tertullian and Minucius Felix, might the gospel of Judas also allude to such allegations, when it characterizes certain of the proto-Orthodox as &quot;slayers of children&quot; (sec. 40; cf. 38)? I ask because the NGS version of the Judas gospel suggests in a footnote (n. 50), that infanticide of a spiritual sort is meant by &quot;slayers of children,&quot; that, apparently, the phrase should not be taken literally; but in reading the gospel several months back, when it was first published, in coming across that phrase I was immediately reminded of Tertullian&#039;s and Minucius Felix&#039;s comments. Hence, my question. Thanks.

Nathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Dr. Harland. I&#8217;ve got just a quick question for you (and anyone else who may care to comment, for that matter): In regards to the allegations of infanticide and cannabalism reproached by Tertullian and Minucius Felix, might the gospel of Judas also allude to such allegations, when it characterizes certain of the proto-Orthodox as &#8220;slayers of children&#8221; (sec. 40; cf. 38)? I ask because the NGS version of the Judas gospel suggests in a footnote (n. 50), that infanticide of a spiritual sort is meant by &#8220;slayers of children,&#8221; that, apparently, the phrase should not be taken literally; but in reading the gospel several months back, when it was first published, in coming across that phrase I was immediately reminded of Tertullian&#8217;s and Minucius Felix&#8217;s comments. Hence, my question. Thanks.</p>
<p>Nathan</p>
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		<title>By: Phil S</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-8080</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-8080</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the mediaeval Christian anti-Semitic rumours have a precedent in Roman anti-Semitic rumours. I can&#039;t think of a parallel off the top of my head, but can anyone else?

Phil S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the mediaeval Christian anti-Semitic rumours have a precedent in Roman anti-Semitic rumours. I can&#8217;t think of a parallel off the top of my head, but can anyone else?</p>
<p>Phil S.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-7615</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-7615</guid>
		<description>You should probably mention the relationship of the old Roman anti-Christian rumors to the medieval Christian anti-Semitic rumors. The &quot;blood libel&quot; is pretty much exactly the same thing as the agape urban legend -- babies, blood and all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should probably mention the relationship of the old Roman anti-Christian rumors to the medieval Christian anti-Semitic rumors. The &#8220;blood libel&#8221; is pretty much exactly the same thing as the agape urban legend &#8212; babies, blood and all.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil H.</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-7552</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-7552</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, John.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2005/05/27/real-child-sacrifice-at-carthage/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Earlier&lt;/a&gt; I had commented on the question of whether child sacrifice actually took place among the Carthaginians (who as you point out were originally settlers from Phoenicia).  Phil H.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, John.  <a href="http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2005/05/27/real-child-sacrifice-at-carthage/" rel="nofollow">Earlier</a> I had commented on the question of whether child sacrifice actually took place among the Carthaginians (who as you point out were originally settlers from Phoenicia).  Phil H.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hardy</title>
		<link>http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/08/31/%e2%80%98come-plunge-the-knife-into-the-baby%e2%80%99-tertullians-not-so-subtle-retort/comment-page-1/#comment-7538</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hardy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/?p=169#comment-7538</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this demonization fits within the tradition of demonizing the ancient though long abandoned Canaanite practice of child sacrifice particularly by Punic colonists in various places around the Mediterranean. 

Here&#039;s a quote from  Maria Eugenia Aubet in her book The Phoenicians and the West - Politics, Colonies and Trade which also gives an ancient definition for the word &quot;sardonic&quot;:

&lt;i&gt;The classical sources attribute frequent holocausts of children to the Carthaginians in order to emphasize the harsh and cruel nature of these people and their Phoenician forefathers. &#039;The Phoenicians, and more especially the Carthaginians, when they want some important project to succeed, promise to sacrifice a child to Cronos if their wish is fulfilled&#039;. Clitarch and Diodorus also tell us that the sacrifice took place in front of a bronze statue of the god, with arms outstretched over a blazing hearth; the child slid down over the arms and fell. It seems that the victims were covered with a grinning mask and that is why, according to Clitarch, they died laughing and hence the term &#039;sardonic&#039; (Sardinian) for a sarcastic smile.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this demonization fits within the tradition of demonizing the ancient though long abandoned Canaanite practice of child sacrifice particularly by Punic colonists in various places around the Mediterranean. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a quote from  Maria Eugenia Aubet in her book The Phoenicians and the West &#8211; Politics, Colonies and Trade which also gives an ancient definition for the word &#8220;sardonic&#8221;:</p>
<p><i>The classical sources attribute frequent holocausts of children to the Carthaginians in order to emphasize the harsh and cruel nature of these people and their Phoenician forefathers. &#8216;The Phoenicians, and more especially the Carthaginians, when they want some important project to succeed, promise to sacrifice a child to Cronos if their wish is fulfilled&#8217;. Clitarch and Diodorus also tell us that the sacrifice took place in front of a bronze statue of the god, with arms outstretched over a blazing hearth; the child slid down over the arms and fell. It seems that the victims were covered with a grinning mask and that is why, according to Clitarch, they died laughing and hence the term &#8216;sardonic&#8217; (Sardinian) for a sarcastic smile.</i></p>
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